Premier says progress made in BCTF dispute

Vancouver, BC, Canada / (CKNW AM) AM980

As the pressure mounts to resolve the teachers dispute before Monday, Premier Christy Clark says more progress has been made.

“The teachers’ union has brought, for the first time, they’ve brought a new proposal to the table. I don’t want to get my hopes up too high, but I believe it is possible that we can get an agreement at the bargaining table. Perhaps, even by the end of the weekend? Who knows?”

Clark was also asked if private contractors may be hired to complete work not considered essential services, but she says she refuses to speculate on what might happen if no deal is reached soon.

Teachers have planned a province-wide study session for Monday with a full-scale strike starting Tuesday.

Comments

  1. I don’t understand about the Private Contractor, why would we pay twice. It’s the Teacher’s job, and they have been ordered to do their job. If not, I believe they would be in contempt.

    • How are taxpayers “paying twice” now that teachers are on strike and not being paid? And, yes, they would be “doing their job” (and getting paid) invigilating provincial exams as required by the LRB order. Did you even read the LRB order?

    • @Dwight-As usual, you got it wrong. The premier was asked about bringing in private contractors to perform work NOT deemd essential-like day-to-day classroom instruction.

      I’m not right up to date on the Labour code but if the premier brought in private contractors to perform non-essential services when teachers are out on a legal strike, the government would be in contempt. But, I would not be surprised given its record.

      Of course, school district management and office staff, etc., who are already employed at the location where a strike is in progress may carry out work normally performed by the striking workforce-in this case, the teachers. Such er “replacement” workers may not be parachuted in from Queen Elizabeth into Princess Margaret. I do not believe a site is defined as one entire school district.

      You may be wise to read the story first and also brush up on the pertinent Labour Code provisions covering replacement workers.

      • “Insite?” Prove me wrong as you said I am, or give it up.
        Enough is enough. Either put up or shut up. But don’t keep bringing me into you posts. Show where I am wrong on the last stats re class size and comp. Shot your mouth off there but still didn’t show me as being wrong. It is a typical response when someone doesn’t know what they are talking about, Attack the Messenger.
        I have told you before, Leave me out of your posts. If my name isn’t involved I do not read your posts anymore, because it is actually sad to read them.

        • @Dwight- Always happy to oblige. You are encouraged to re-read your first post which deserved a response.

          The story (quote): “Clark was also asked if private contractors may be hired to complete work NOT considered essential services,”

          Dwight if a private contractor was brought in to perform NON-ESSENTIAL work normally performed by teachers on a legal strike, IMO. you will see the biggest picket line and labour protest at a workplace in BC since the 1966 Lenkurt Electric strike.

          BTW you are not exactly a beacon of respect. And I am not reluctant to respond.

          • Mumbo-jumbo. You’ve lost your touch. Maybe another 10 or 20 paragraphs with a few “having said that”‘s, “on the other hand”‘s and of course the good old “LOL” would help – but I doubt it. I’ll just go back to the odd glance.

        • Dwight! Where do you put yourself as the messenger you seem like a Liberal PAB boy wanting to fight everyone that is smarter than yourself! Give it a rest for a moment take a deep breath and hold it for a while!

  2. Here it comes. Christy is about to take call the credit for getting a deal done. She just can’t help stay away from any photo op waving her hands and saying “look at me, look at me”!

    Funny, we don’t see her when there is talk about transit spending?

    Here comes the Christy cop out referendum and the Christy Transit taxes!

    • You really have a hate on for the premier. Iker has been calling it “Christies lockout” and “Christies Strike”. He has called on “Christy Clark” to bring more funding to the table. Whenever the BCTF speak, it is Christy Clark in the pejorative.

      Posters on this site call her out for not doing anything.

      Now, she comments on some optimism in negotiations, and you crawl done her throat for getting involved.

      You need to set your hate aside as it makes you sound foolish.

  3. “for the first time”???? really???? I’ve read the BCSPEA and the BCTF sites that show that BCTF has made several major concessions in the last few weeks. I only see one major concession from the govt… and that is reducing their demand for a 10 year contract to 6 years. (A demand that was clearly ridiculous. I can’t imagine any union and very few workers in private sector accepting a 10 year contract.) I’d still like to know how much tax payer money has been spent on the 2 lawsuits ruled unconstitutional in the courts and how much will continue to be spent on the appeals.

    • @Lyn, thanks for clearly showing your greed, make sure it’s all about you, your union and your wallet !

      You might want to consider not using kids as pawns in the future but I understand that is the mentality you deal with in your union on a daily basis.

      I have no problem with putting more cash in the system but the teachers make enough money already and let’s not forget the full (excessive) benefits and 11 weeks paid holidays ! ..you have it so rough !

      • You of the right always talk about kids as pawns when are you going to realize you have many in high-school that are of voting age or close to it and many at voting age in 2017 maybe you should let them become engaged in the political side of the BC Liberals and how they have screwed them out of the best education with all their cuts and fighting to break the BCTF (teachers union) they have been the pawns of the BC Liberals for over 12years and you know it! unconstitutional and provoking a strike to get parents piss-off at the teachers,they seemed not to care about the Kids now did they for all these years! Christy Clark 2005

        • The BCTF are the ones who caused ALL these issues, history does not lie, look at the BCTF relationship with any government in power and you will see the issue is NOT the government !

          • Did the BCTF play a roll well commonsense it take two to tango! They fight for their lives every time they came to negotiations with the BC Liberals.You right wingnut support everything bad about this Government deflect and defend is what you do here, all the time or they would not need you here.

    • How about the BC Ferry Corp. And look at how well that worked.
      The Ferry workers were almost as bad a the BCTF. Yet under the 10 year deal
      the Labor relations between union and employer has greatly improved.
      With all the strife this Union has caused over the years, it was a good demand.
      Suggest you take a look at some of the BCTF demands, and comment!

  4. Christy says’ “Who Knows’” “Perhaps, even by the end of the weekend”?

    And if you believe that, next we will see pigs fly.
    Christy has no reason to sign a deal. All along she has done everything she could to get teacher to strike.
    lock out teachers morning and night,
    10% wage cut,
    force striking teachers to finish report cards,
    She is dancing with glee. Now that she has finally gotten teachers to strike. The public pain will make her government look good when she bullies the teachers even more.

  5. How can our Premier claim today, “The teachers’ union has brought, for the first time, they’ve brought a new proposal to the table”? Is that a bald-faced lie?

    On the BCPSEA website, (http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/bc-teachers/teacher-collective-bargaining.aspx) the teachers are shown to have brought propsals to the negiation table ten days ago, on June 3. In addition, not yet on their website, the BCTF brought new proposals this week which Christ describes as “for the first time.” What is she talking about?

    Meanwhile, the BCPSEA, on their own website are shown to have brought proposals to the table most recently in April, 2014.

    Who has been doing the moving?

    Now, this weekend, Christy is saying, she will not interfere at the bargaining table. If there is a will, they will work it out. But, unless she authorizes more money Peter Cameron and negotiators have nothing to put on the table. The only so called “give and take” is the teachers giving up something they already have to “take” something else (like class size and composition).

    Furthermore, negotiating class size and composition would be tantamount to ignoring the previous court rulings in favor of the BCTF and making them moot. So all the BCTF can ask for (and NOTHING less would be acceptable to me as a teacher) is a placeholder to await the results of the legal appeal of previous supreme court decisions. The government wants teachers to drop their claims from those rulings. So teachers are in the impossible situation of saying they want class size and composition guarantees but they cannot negotiate new fresh guarantees with a government that considers all previous guarantees dead requiring BCTF to bargain for these from scratch as though for the first time. Would anyone expect teachers to once again give up wage demands in exchange for class size and class makeup, only to see the government turn around and tear that up without corresponding composition?

    • Not wanting to slog through the details of the offers presented by the BCTF that you claim are on their site, can you give me a summary of the three offers?

      • Ron, as requested, here is a summary of the three most recent proposals posted to the BCPSEA/ website (URL given above):

        1. What BCPSEA brought to the table in April: 1. their response to the BCTF wage proposal, comparing it to settlements for 2013-2016 with BCGEU and HSA which got net 4% and 3% for that period, and 2) BCPSEA’s current offer to BCTF which is net 2% for 2013-2016. Check it out for yourself on their website!
        [Read: the teachers would have to negotiate (!) to get up to the same as other unions.]

        2. BCTF dropped their wage proposals over four years and reduced all their class size, composition and support ratios, as well as reducing a number of proposals for such things as glasses (presently 200.00/per 2 years).

        3. BCTF brought their new wage proposals which have not yet been made public, but according to reports, again reducing their wage proposals.

        4) I erred in my previous comment about what else the government ‘brought’ to the table. On May 16, they a) reduced their requirement of a 10-year deal to a 6-year deal, and b) offered a signing bonus of $1200.00 if agreement is reached before June 30. The document also puts BCTF proposals in a chart alongside BCPSEA responses–which are not counter-proposals but defensive or counter arguments.

        Meanwhile, however, though not on the BCPSEA website, the BPSEA took away 10% of teacher salaries 5% purportedly due to BCTF job action (which no one noticed because it did not affect students), and 5% due to the government lockout (which has brought about confusion and drastically affected students). If teachers sign before June 30th, that signing ‘bonus’ will do little more than recover our wage losses of the past 3 weeks, not to mention the loss during the strike if it starts next week.

        • Sorry, I wasn’t clear. What is the dollar effect of these “compromises”?
          Fill in the blanks:

          The BCTF was first asking the taxpayers to pay $______________

          Now the BCTF is asking the taxpayers to pay $_______________

          • Your question reminds me of a Park Ranger who was being chewed out by a wannabe camper who had not made it on time to stay at an unreserved spot. “My taxes pay for this Campground and your salary!” the wannabe camper yelled in the Park Ranger’s face.

            The Park Ranger, not wanting an argument repliied, “I’ll give you a full refund of all the taxes you’ve ever paid that went toward this park,” and gave him 10 cents along with the comment that 10 cents is probably more than the wannabe camper’s taxes ever contributed to that park!

            I will try to answer your question.

            By “pay” did you mean the actual average salary increases requested? The proposal dropped from a 10.75% increase over 4 years to a 9.75% increase over 4 years.
            Given that, “In fact, the standard teacher salary in B.C. for 2012-13, with allowances, was . . . $71,485” Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/battle-of-numbers-how-much-does-an-average-teacher-make/article17309702/
            and given that the first proposal asked for a 10.75% increase and the second proposal asked for 9.75 (and the third BCTF proposal is not yet public),
            Let’s do the Math. We will multiply the average $71485 income by 1.1075 and compare that by multiplying $71485 by 1.0975.

            Let’s fill in the blanks: on average per teacher in four years (2017)(+ a fractional COLA),

            the BCTF was first asking BC taxpayers to pay $79169.64;

            then the BCTF was asking the taxpayers to pay $78454.79

            Overall, the total of teacher salaries in four years is about 285 million more per year than it was in the 2012-school year. Our salary has been at 0% increase since 2012. Keep in mind that the BC Gov’t’s projected inflation rate is 1.5%/year. (The actual current inflation rate is around 2%/year.) Since 1.5% year x four years is 6%, the increase asked for in the second proposal is 3.75% (+ a partial COLA). The third salary proposal is not out yet, but it is getting close to just keeping up with inflation. BC teachers are currently 4th or 5th in salaries compared to teachers across Canadian Provinces.

          • Alvin, you costing out the bctf ‘wage’ increase, that doesn’t include BCTF demand for COLA (the 2.75%, not quite fractional) and an inflation increases. You also don’t factor in the BCTF demand to change the grid, moving teachers up the grid and there for increasing their pay. Teachers are requesting for more hours for prep and the associated % increase in pay. Add to all these increase the matching increase for the taxpayer’s portion of the teacher’s salary.

            When comparing wages across the country, why isn’t the total package discussed? Could it be that the benefits and pension package that the BCTF enjoy is beyond what other areas have?

          • “D”
            • I DID NOT purport to “cost out the bctf ‘wage’ increase” which would have to include benefits not deducted from wages. Some benefits are paid by the employer; others (e.g., pension) are matched by the employer.
            • I DID include COLA: “ . . . (+ a fractional COLA)” BCTF was asking for .5 .5, .75 and 1.0 COLA for the 4 years of their proposal (not ‘demand’BTW,—that is such a misnomer for what is proposed at a bargaining table!). Three of four years are fractional making the total COLA fractional: 2.75 over 4. There are no “inflation increases” in addition to the proposed wages and COLA, so what are you talking about? Back up your statements, please!
            • What the grid proposals do is recognize that almost all teachers spend the first five years after graduation as Teachers on Call with very low and unpredictable incomes. So it takes well over 10 years to accumulate the equivalent of 10 years of pay and earn the top tier on the grid. The compromise at the bargaining table is likely to redistribute the 10 year grid evenly over 8 years instead of just deleting the bottom two years on the grid so no one gets instantly “bumped up.”
            • I have studied the prep hours chart comparing BC and the other provinces for both Elementary and Secondary teachers. BC teachers get less prep time than most other teachers across Canada.
            • Your sentence starting with, “Add to all these increase . . .” is completely unclear. What did you mean?
            Regarding the “total package,” that gets very complicated and difficult to obtain facts on for comparison. Don’t you think that teachers across Canada also have additional benefits? For simplicity, I was just comparing their wages. While it could be that BC benefits package exceeds that of other provinces, it is highly unlikely to be so, considering the animosity of our government toward teachers. Is it likely when teachers receive lower wages (the really publicly visible figure –you can look them up online for every publicly employed individual in BC http://www.vancouversun.com/business/public-sector-salaries/index.html)–than at least 4 other Provinces, that the BC government is going to be more generous toward teachers in the fine print of benefits? How logical is that?

    • As I said before, teachers should negotiate their wages and benefits and defer negotiations respecting class size/composition pending the Court of Appeal Decision. Under no circumstances should teachers – at this stage – abandon all the headway they have made in the Courts. The decision is significant and has far reaching effects.

    • @Alvin-

      Michael Campbell says one of the major stumbling blocks to a negotiated agreement is the BCTF proposal that massage therapy benefit be increased to $3000 per teacher, Michael Campbell projected a potential $120 million ($120,000,000) hit to the education budget based on 40,000 teachers. That’s a lot of money-but an unrealistic number.

      Consider my example that it would also cost our healthcare system and taxpayers a potential $80 trillion ($80,000,000,000) if a $20,000 brain-surgery benefit was claimed by the entire 4 million population of BC-in addition to all the existing benefits. And that’s a lot of money-but an unrealistic number.

      This is where the concept of risk comes into play and if such costs are insured, actuarial data is readily available to an underwriter to estimate the probable annual costs -which will be nowhere near such numbers.

      So I have no concerns over increasing the massage-therapy benefit to teachers for medical reasons. I’m sure that a doctor or specialist prescription would be required to qualify for this benefit in those special cases. A non-issue.

      BTW, I was having Fun with Numbers with brain surgery to make my point…

      • You have no issue giving teachers anything they ask for. And you are right, why worry?…… teachers and the public sector workers never take advantage of their benefits – like sick days. They are so pious.

      • The Michael Campbell monologue on Thursday morning was amusing … and well-timed. I am sure that it was actually recorded several days or weeks ago and was ready for ‘release’ when the BC Liberal government timing was right. I say this because the salary proposal by teachers was way out of date , as were some of his other allusions to teacher demands.

        • Of course his point was that the demands for extreme salary inreases are only the tip of the iceberg. Whatever invented sinister plot or even the date it was taped, you did get the basic idea didn’t you?

          • Oh I certainly did get Michael Campbell’s basic idea. He always sounds as if he is channeling his brother, Gordon Campbell, so the tone and rant are pretty familiar.

            By the way. I hope Gordon landed on his feet after being ‘removed’ as Premier several years ago.

  6. As requested, here is a summary of the three most recent proposals posted to the BCPSEA/ website (URL given above):
    1. What BCPSEA brought to the table in April: 1. their response to the BCTF wage proposal, comparing it to settlements for 2013-2016 with BCGEU and HSA which got net 4% and 3% for that period, and 2) BCPSEA’s current offer to BCTF which is net 2% for 2013-2016. Check it out for yourself on their website!
    [Read: the teachers would have to negotiate (!) to get up to the same as other unions.]
    2. BCTF dropped their wage proposals over four years and reduced all their class size, composition and support ratios, as well as reducing a number of proposals for such things as glasses (presently 200.00/per 2 years).
    3. BCTF brought their new wage proposals which have not yet been made public, but according to reports, again reducing their wage proposals.

    4) I erred in my previous comment about what else the government ‘brought’ to the table. On May 16, they a) reduced their requirement of a 10-year deal to a 6-year deal, and b) offered a signing bonus of $1200.00 if agreement is reached before June 30. The document also puts BCTF proposals in a chart alongside BCPSEA responses–which are not counter-proposals but defensive or counter arguments.

    Meanwhile, however, though not on the BCPSEA website, took away 10% of teacher salaries 5% purportedly due to BCTF job action (which no one noticed because it did not affect students), and 5% due to the government lockout (which has brought about confusion and drastically affected students). If teachers sign before June 30th, that signing ‘bonus’ will do little more than recover their wage losses of the past 3 weeks, not to mention the next two weeks.

  7. It’s time to pull a “Reagan” on this union and fire them all !

    There are plenty of qualified teachers just waiting for positions to open up and they would be very happy with the current pay, great benefits and 11 weeks of paid holidays !

  8. When someone makes a statement like fire all workers like the US does, I only realize more that I’m glad I live in Canada. Have you looked at the economic situation and US schools performance lately?

    • I have Tom and I can tell you that a pretty large percentage of students graduating from schools here in BC do not know how to read, write or do mathematics in an acceptable manner to get through life and that is because teachers thought it wise to not let any students get a zero or fail in any way because it might just hurt their feelings ! … Everyone gets a first place ribbon no matter how bad they perform… The system is almost a complete failure, the BCTF and the teachers are largely to blame !

  9. Dex…people like you throw these comments without any facts backing their claims…11 weeks. Teachers get..2 weeks Christmas. ..1 week spring break…that’s the only paid holiday…3 weeks….some districts close schools for additional week at spring break…but teachers must work additional minutes in a school year to make up for week closure…2 months summer…no pay. As for Reagan comment…read.your history and see what the consequences were.

    • Excuse me Dave but there is no need to flat out lie to try and boost your claims !
      The teachers are paid a full years salary for 9.75 months worked and that is a proven fact, that is something you can not dispute ! … Just so you understand clearly as I gather your not very educated, teachers get 12 months pay for 9.75 months worked so saying you they get no pay for 2 months in summer is just a flat out lie !

      I know my history very well Dave and the biggest difference between the air traffic controllers and the teachers is, there are many bright, young, educated, qualified teachers who are more than willing to work for the wages, benefits and paid holidays that this generation of teachers don’t believe is enough so firing all of you will not have the same effect, it will in fact be a VERY positive time in history indeed if this government actually had the balls to fire all of you !!

      • Dex…So if these teachers are so qualified coming out of university…just as good as the current t ones…fire them all….the pay each new teacher at top pay grid…They are more motivated than the current ones….reward them…why make them wait 11 years before they are paid at top of their salary grid.

        • You know that wouldn’t make sense Dave, the first thing we do after you are all fired is get rid of the BCTF for good as we should have never allowed public sector unions in the first place. The new teachers coming in would of course be paid less to begin with but they would still have full benefits and 11 weeks paid holidays as is the current system but the biggest difference would be the fresh outlook the new teachers would have and the lack of a militant union attitude in the workplace !

          I put the blame of all this BS happening squarely on the shoulders of the BCTF but apparently a majority of the current teachers agree with them so the only true way to solve this issue is to get rid of the union and the teachers that support it once and for all !

    • Anything not to pay school taxes for some of you BC Liberal supporters! you will rib Bc apart to keep all the wealth on your side! You wouldn’t be having this problem if people of all stripes had the money to make sound choices.The choice for student are now being made for them from a Government that hates anyone to get an education to fight the wealthy elitism that when all schools are just ripped down to training people for the trades to have a mobile workforce, then have to travel to the ends of the country and the Earth to feed themselves, but the rich boys and girl can stay at home getting the prefect Jobs as leaders and in all of the professions and that was Christy’s Clarks plan in 2005. Still I wonder who will do the work here to paint and fix things like the plumbing, when all our men and women have gone in search of work. In BC nothing is but contracts when that is gone then comes the pink slips? TFW’s I presume will take over the dirty grunt jobs that should only be for minimum wages and will leave the entitled very prosperous an still screaming they pay too many taxes! If the million+ workers that are the working poor or pay no Provincail income taxes if they had jobs that pay some money then you of the right wouldn’t have to pay so much Taxes, it would be shared, eh! Well not until you find all the loophole with your accounts to hide your cash and not pay!

  10. My kids goto an independent school, if my son went to public school he would be going through his 2nd strike ! The BCTF cannot get along with the government no matter who is in power. A signing bonus ?? For what ? If there is a full scale strike does that mean the BCTF will be walking the picket lines throughout the summer?

    • Government using a signing bonus so they don’t have to give a percentage increase this year to a teachers salary…a one time payment this year doesn’t cost government an increase next year. They will be paid same amount. ..and thus another zero. Public will read teachers getting a bonus. ..not like it and think negatively. Unless you are smart enough to see see why they doing it.

  11. I retired from teaching in 2001. My BEd degree (5 years at UVic) plus 35 years of teaching in secondary schools in North Vancouver provided an annual 2001 salary of $60,113. What if I had continued to teach until this year (2014)? My annual salary this year would have been $76,220.52. That is a 13 year increase of 26.8%. About 2% per year overall.

    Compare this to a BC MLA. In 2001 my MLA received a salary of $72,100. An MLA now receives a salary of $101,859. So in the same 13 year period an MLA enjoyed a salary increase of 41.3%.

    How about our BC Premier? The Premier’s salary in 2001 was $117,000. Christy Clark is the happy recipient of a 2014 annual salary of $193,532. That’s actually an increase of 65.4% in the same 13 years.

    Do you find this fair? Christy Clark thinks it is fair. I don’t.

    • Tell us about your pension Stu . . .

      Compared to an MLA ?
      We can unellect MLAs at the next election . . . not so with the teachers.
      Did you read their long list of demands ? Far more in play than a wage increase.

        • Michael Campbell has spoke of their long laundry list several times . . .
          Extended bereavement pay
          Unlimited Massage therapy
          More paid preparation time
          100% paid maternity leave

          Most importantly, there is no research that concludes that more spending equates to better education

      • don’t you see the slightest bit of hypocrisy? Why do you defend it? Your point about not re-electing MLA’s has to be balanced with the large pension they receive if not re-elected.

        • “Your point about not re-electing MLA’s has to be balanced with the large pension they receive if not re-elected.”

          ? ? ? They receive no pension if they are not re-elected . . . only when they reach pensionable age . . . and I agree it is too high . . . but there are only 100s of them . . . . while there are 10s of thousands of teachers, whose abilities are NEVER questioned living off the tax payer.

    • So you think a fair comparison is Teachers to MLA.
      MLA`s as Dale pointed out, can get dumped every 4 years if they are not doing their job. Not so for a Teacher.
      Why not compare it to a Pensioner over the same time period?
      Or a support worker?

  12. My retired teacher’s pension is $33,010 per year.

    80% of my pension is paid from the money invested by a teacher-government investment board. These are real dollars invested in real assets and stocks and bonds, etc. When I first started teaching, my contributions and my employer’s contributions were ‘invested’ by the BC government in low yield bonds (Hydro, etc). Fortunately, that is no longer the case and last year the BC Pension investment experts achieved a return of about 18% on their investment decisions. Yes, 18%, not the 1.8% that I earn in my TFSA.

    Working teachers in 2014 are paying over 12% into their pension and, yes, the school board employers match that amount. You and I are both aware of many private sector employees who don’t put anything approaching 12% into their pension and are employed by companies that don’t make fair and adequate contributions. Some companies shirk their fiscal responsibility (with federal government approval) and some companies invest the money in themselves (no outside assets). No wonder some private sector employees wish they had a better employer and wish they had individually contributed more of their own salaries.

    MLA and Premier pensions? I will do some more research, but I believe they can collect after ten years of service. Perhaps you have the information at hand and can let us know the amount and conditions.

    And all of the teachers’ demands? Many of them are the same ones stripped by the BC Liberals from the teachers’ contracts during the past eleven years. This is a matter still before the courts and Christy won’t discuss it, but I am quite happy to comment. The BC government will likely lose the current appeal and will finally have to re-institute the class composition and class size contractual agreements that the BC government arbitrarily discarded in 2002. Christy Clark has lost this case twice. In my view the Premier should be paying the court costs personally, because she has no doubt ignored a great deal of legal opinion from her own government lawyers.

    I hope that I have helped you to understand my concern as a retired teacher and educator.

    • Don’t bother responding to Dale – left coast, your wasting your logic. He’s a right wing conservative and cannot see past his own wallet.

      I fear that public education is being dismantled in BC in favour of private institutions. This strike as paved the way. Too bad the public doesn’t yet realize it – they will, when it’s too late.

    • “Working teachers in 2014 are paying over 12% into their pension ” ?

      Really? When I worked in the Private Sector I CONTRIBUTED 45% into my pension and the employer contributed 55% . . .

      If teachers only contribute 12% . . . by default that means TAXPAYERS Contribute 88% . . .

      • Sorry Dale. I should have been clearer about teacher contributions.

        Each teacher currently pays over 12% of his/her salary into their pension. The employer pays slightly more than that.

        This sounds very similar to your former private sector employer. But, what % of your salary did you actually contribute? Would it be a lot more than 12% of your salary, or somewhat less? If it was 12% or more you must have a pretty substantial amount of pension invested.

      • Hello again Dale. I thought about your incorrect assumption that teachers only pay 12% of the annual contribution. I hope that I clarified the fact that they pay over 12% of their total actual annual salary into the pension.

        But, you got me thinking about this and I checked on Christy Clark’s pension and on the other MLAs. Believe it or not they only contribute 11% of their salary to their own pension. That’s a lower percentage than BC teachers contribute! Perhaps when you seized on 12% you were thinking of her.

        Not only that but the BC government (we taxpayers) more than match the MLA and Premier contributions. The BC government (us again) pay an amount equal to 39.5% of each MLA’s salary and Christy’s salary into the pension fund. What a nice deal. I wonder who legislated that! By the way, that is much, much, better than even your own former employer.

        Oh, I should also mention that Christy and the MLAs only need six (yes 6) years of actual service in order to earn a very nice pension.

        Thanks for encouraging me to do this further research. I am learning something new every day.

  13. Tell me Stu how making 76,000 a year and /or a 33,000 annual pension is living the hard life ? … Everyone can make comparisons to other workers salaries and it will never come out fair !

    The union mentality does not belong in education, in fact public sector workers should have never been allowed to unionize in the first place as their employer is the taxpayers of this country !

    • Thanks Dex for your comment. Yes, comparisons are odious and one can always find disparities to prove a point.

      My main point was that teachers in BC are not treated very well at all by the current BC government, in terms of salary but also in terms of working conditions and student learning conditions.

      I sometimes think of my pension as “previously unpaid overtime” for the thousands and thousands of hours I worked on preparation, marking, coaching, sponsoring clubs, meetings, ProD, etc. But that is just my simplistic view of a very complicated world.

      Perhaps you could share your own employment information with the rest of us; salary, working conditions, possible pension, etcetera. I find that dialogue sheds more light than monologue.

      Your comment about ‘being allowed to unionize’ is interesting. During my first years of teaching I was a member of the BCTF and it was not a union. This all changed when Mr Vander Zalm (Social Credit / Liberal) Premier took the advice of some of his political advisors and offered teachers a vote on union certification. Poor advice from his friends because he had not fully realized the degree of anger he had already generated among BC teachers. So, the Vander Zalm mandated vote took place and, as I recall, about 90% of BC teachers voted in favour of a union. Thanks to Bill Vander Zalm the BCTF is now a union. Perhaps you could speak to Bill and Christy about this at your next Liberal Party meeting.

  14. Dex, in case you missed it, this dispute is about class/size composition, and to what extent that affect working conditions and the efficacy of educational programs in a class room. The teacher’s wage demands are a side show designed to deflect from the true issue.

    • I didn’t miss it Garp and if it the wage demands are just a side show then why doesn’t the BCTF drop the wage demands altogether ? .. It is enough of an issue that they are not discussing anything else until the wage demands are settled !

      Class size and composition is an easy fix to me, take the special needs kids out of mainstream classrooms and have them in their own classes with an exceptional support system, also take ESL students out as well until they get a basic grasp of the language !

      Feelings will be hurt but problem will be solved !

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